A Dreamy 3rd person camera idea!
Greetings Dreamers. I have been recently working with different camera rig setups and have been experimenting with different techniques and tricks in an attempt to give my in-game camera a feel similar to a modern Tomb Raider or Horizon Zero Dawn type of aiming system (Press L2 to aim, switch to and up-close over the shoulder view.) After weeks of trying, looking at tutorials, trying again, digging deeper, trying more tutorials, trying again and again, I am still at a loss for how to achieve the camera-feel I want my game to have.
During my experiments, I discovered that there are puppet tweak, and controller sensor camera parameters that can be controlled by entering a values from an input source. For example, you can set the L2 button to make the puppet turn and face the direction that the camera is facing, and you can set the camera on the controller sensor to zoom in to, let's say one meter. Unfortunately, our ability to easily customize the default in-game play mode camera appears to stop there. If we want the camera to behave differently, we have to go into gadget-land and figure it out ourselves, using the cameras that you can stamp into the scene. The problem with that is, I've tried setup after setup, taking up hour after hour, failure after failure and I still do not have result. Even the stampable camera has no way to be told where to point by an input signal, at least not to my knowledge, without attaching it to an object, and rigging that object, and using some form of manipulation on that object. I have repeated this process over and over, but cannot achieve the exact "feel" that I am looking for. I would suggest that there are two key adjustable features missing here that could eliminate this problem. 1st, the camera setting either on the puppet tweaks or controller sensor needs a "character justify left/ right" setting. This would, upon being triggered by an input source, send the puppet to the lower corner of the screen upon zoom-in, which could potentially be made toggle-able, (for shoulder swap situations), and could potentially be adjustable to determine how much of the puppet stays in the shot. As far as I have found, this is not possible without building a camera rig.
The other feature I feel would greatly help would be a way to connect the puppet's upper body to the built in, in game cam (the one that is in use when no user-placed cameras in the scene are active), that is is to say, a way tilt the puppet's upper body up and down, with the aiming, which any actual posing such as "weapon raised" could be handled by keyframe(user generated). I understand there are ways to emulate this with timeline manipulation, and/ or a series of rotators, gyros etc, but all of that greatly increases the amount of heavy lifting needed to be done to get a simple and very common , 3rd person gameplay mechanic off the ground in Dreams. I think, similar to the way procedural walk was handled, a similar approach could be taken with the built-in play mode camera( the one we get when no user-placed cameras are active in a scene) to really take a lot of the workload off of the Dreamer and get us creating content and not trying to piece together solutions from bits and pieces of machinery, only to have hours and day and weeks go by and still no real solution to my problem, which grinds productivity to a halt. Every minute I spend trying to fix this problem, is a minute I could be spending fleshing out my project further.
I say, let's save the gadgetry for the gameplay obstacles.
For things like "press L2 to aim" and have the default playmode camera (again, the camera that is active when no user-placed cameras are active) go to an over-the-shoulder view, lets have that setup more like the procedural walk sliders (which are absolutely OUTSTANDING). The 3rd-person, aim-over-the-shoulder concept is MEGA common in gaming, I would love for the Dreamers at Mm to make that easier for us new creators to achieve.
Anyway, that's my feedback (until my next gripe.) Much love to Mm and all Dreamers!
PS I cannot stress enough how bloody brilliant those procedural walk sliders are. I mean, why would you ever need to animate a walk/run sequence by hand? there are so many tweaks you can always find a way to make a walk/run unique, without the heavy lifting. BRILLIANT! If the camera system was that easy to customize...
I'd recommend for a first-time couch creator, try making stuff that is easier, stuff Dreams makes easy for you to make. Don't jump into some big game you've always dreamed of before you know how to actually use Dreams. Start slow and work your way up, just as you would if you were learning anything else.
Sorry if I sound rude. I'm just mad. I wish I was better at this.
I guess my point is, you shouldn't have to make a setup, unless you want to. The fact that if you want more camera control you have to make physical objects, attach cameras, and try to get that stuff to behave a certain way. From the point of view of a 1st time couch-creator, that is really daunting. I understand there are tutorials for it out there, but the need for such things should not exist in the first place. If the system were to work as my idea suggests, the feel and behavior of the camera could be set within a matter of minutes and the creator can move on to , you know, creating. Anyway, I'm sure at this point there is not much that can be done about it, the game we have is the game we have. Borrowing someone else's tech from the Dreamaverse is not an option for me. So I dunno, maybe I'll just make a platformer.
I agree 100%. Making a decent useable FPS is so much work. Things like this should be a toggle or switch in a game creation suite. Dreams has massive time saving elements and in other areas it expects you to build the most basic things it if logic that should simply be an option.
The camera gadget should be robust and make fps and 3rd person games as simple as switching on switches like they are in other game builders
There are many setups people have already made in Dreams that do these kinds of things, including a first-person puppet from Mm which has up/down aiming. Basically, the way to do it is to just... do it. And once you know how it's done it isn't that difficult to pull off.
I have a series of tutorials on this stuff you may find useful which include indreams links to the rigs themselves if you just want to plonk them in. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLX3qX-yI9vm7PIAosYyd4ii84Q6puufQB
I mean, if they add these features that's cool. But either way, in the meantime this stuff isn't too crazy to get started with.