Hidden levels are made visible through a dream's geneology.
Hi! So I discovered that if a Dream for example has all it's levels set to "always invisible", this can be bypassed by going through that dream's geneology (where levels will be visible once discovered).
If one selects a level from this geneology, the linking/doorways to the next level, as defined by the dream, is not deactivated (it should be imo), and posting to scoreboards is also still active.
This becomes extremely problematic when one uses variables for example to keep track of the time one has used (for speedruns etc.). Let's say this time-variable is reset at the start of the dream. One could easily cheat this by first going into the dream and "discovering" the different levels, then start the dream again to have the time-variable reset, then exit the dream, go to the dream's geneology, from here pick the last level in the dream, and then complete this level where the time-variable which was reset will be posted to the scoreboard.
The solution in my opinion would be to simply treat levels selected through geneology the same as when it's selected through for example the creator's profile; i.e. disable all forms of level-linking (when the level ends you're instead returned to the geneology screen), and disable all forms of posting to scoreboards (to prevent users from skipping to the last level).
Would love to hear your thoughts on this, as this has been and is a huge frustration of mine 😅
Thanks for submitting the issue. Apologies for the delayed response. We have entered this into our database.
@TAPgiles, for me the scenes in a dream becomes playable through the geneology once they've been "discovered" through playing the dream normally first.
This is also the case with other users' dreams. For example this one:
First I play it normally to "discover" the scenes. Then I can play the scenes in the dream's geneology as I was playing them as a part of the dream (i.e. level links are still enabled, scoreboards are still enabled etc.)
I could not replicate this on your offroad game. I couldn't get to the map from the pause menu. When I went to the genealogy, the scenes were there but I couldn't click on them.
So I've done some testing and it seems that this problem is with EVERY dream that I can play (at least the ones I've tested so far) in the Dreamiverse.
Problem is: playing a chapter through a dreams' geneology is the same as playing the dream. This allows for users to skip chapters even though these chapters are set to "always invisible" or are unlisted. Which then will clearly make it possible to mess up the scoreboards (time scoreboards for example are pretty easy to mess up when users are able to skip to the end through geneology).
@Mm, can you let me know when you've investigated the issue? So that I can manually try to fix it using logic inside the chapters. Hopefully the bug is fixed soon too, so it doesn't happen to other dreams! :)
I have a tutorial on how to do that by the way, if the time comes... https://youtu.be/Lr9fiMVW_is?list=PLX3qX-yI9vm4Dgo5NpTd0HcHYhnCJXNQA
@TAPgiles. Yeah using checks like that would probably work as a work-around; I'll implement that after I've got confirmation from Mm that they're done testing this and that they've located the source of the bug. Thanks :)
Yeah... To me it sounds like there are 2 bugs here: seeing unlisted creations in the genealogy, and playing scenes through the genealogy is as if you got to them through the dream.
In the meantime, you could save a variable right before you send them off to the next scene saying the last scene they are allowed to be in. Then add a check to say if they're not allowed to be there they get kicked out. I know it's a faff, but that should work in case you want to resolve this quickly.
Even though it's unlisted another account can still see them (and play them once they've been visited in the dream) through the dream's geneology.
It is that way when I try to boot Dreams with another PSN account. I also remember Killiterious (streamer) used the geneology to check the ending, even though that scene is unlisted.
The fact that scenes are visible in geneology isn't really the problem though, it's that when playing scenes from geneology they're treated as you're in the dream itself; keeping variable values and links to future scenes and scoreboards and such. This bug has kind of messed up the speedrunning scoreboard on The Pilgrim, as users just skipped to the last level through geneology :O
Note that *you* will probably still see those because you can see your own unlisted stuff. Or do you mean even though it's unlisted another account could still see them in the genealogy? Could it just take time for the server to update or something?
Yeah that's pretty weird. When going through the dream map that's as intended I think. But not through the genealogy.
@Mm, this is happening to my dream "The Pilgrim". I just tried unlisting the individual scenes the dream consists of and then used a different PSN-user to do some testing, but that did not change anything; the scenes still appear in the dream's geneology and level-linking and scoreboards are still enabled when entering the scene via the geneology.
@TAPgiles, exactly!: Going straight to a scene through the dream's geneology makes it running exactly as in the dream; level links are still active, variables are still the same values, posting to scoreboards is still enabled... I'm pretty sure it wasn't like this before the VR update...
Oh does it work that way? I haven't seen that happen before. So if you don't play the dream, but go straight to the scene through the genealogy you're saying it's running as if it were in the dream?
Or are you getting to the genealogy list some other way?
@TAPgiles, thanks! I'll try it out to see if that works! Also, the fact that levels in geneology are now being treated as they're part of the Dream (with level-links and scoreboards enabled) is something that was added recently according to some people speedrunning my Dream; probably with the VR update. Not sure why Mm added it, as it would introduce exploits to most multi-level dreams with a time-scoreboard...
Right. It will hide it from the genealogy, which is what we're talking about. Most people that play your game will get those notifications so it would go a long way to helping you. And that's what I ty to do here.
Unlisted scenes can also be played because if you use another players creation they will be notified
If people can see it in the genealogy, then it means that scene is listed. So to avoid this, you could at least unlist it--or release it private-only so that you can only get to it through the Dream.
Adding code so that it's only unlocked in the dream map if you accessed it through the dream itself would make perfect sense though.